Makes sense
They do be tasting good though
Hey all you modern-day meat eaters out there, raise your hand if you’ve ever actually killed an animal.
No one?
That’s what I thought.
Even if you added “for it’s meat” at the end there, I have killed and eaten fish.
But the way you said it, who hasn’t swatted a fly or mosquito? Not to mention the skin mites and fruit flies you consume daily.
🙋♂️ Am I still allowed to eat it?
I went hunting but I got bored.
Thrill of the hunt, my ass! I fell asleep on a log.
Do you use a phone? Well, you cant use one unless you build it yourself…
I’ve killed deer, chickens, chipmunks, squirrel, and some other small pests. Yes, I did gut and clean the deer and chickens myself. And yes, I did eat their tasty fleshy meat.
No one has every hunted. I mean, I have, but no, no one.
Lol, are you trying to say something?
How many beans have you harvested? How many bushels of wheat have you grown? None, damn I guess that means we all have to starve to death.
Took a chance on the lemmy demographic and lost. There’s actually a pretty diverse group here I’m finding.
I have butchered squirrels, deer, turkey, snakes, catfish, goats, pigs, and rabbits. Went vegetarian two years ago for ethical reasons though, so I guess I don’t get to raise my hand lol
🙋
I went crabbing and the resources I found said that killing them before cooking them was likely more humane than boiling them alive, so that’s what I did.
My old neighbor’s cat once left a paralyzed/twitching rat outside my door, which I found in the morning. I quickly realized that the rat was not going to recover (it had already been there for hours), so I had to figure out a way to quickly end its suffering. I did not eat the rat though.
It’s an interesting choice to accuse people in general of never having gone fishing before.
If you thought they were saying noone has ever killed their own meat, you are missing the point.
They should formulate their point better so you don’t look silly when you leap to their defense.
If you think I look silly, sure. All I’m saying is all of the meat advocates that jumped to attack the OP are missing the point.
Now, why would you all misconstrue what they said so bad? Are you all seriously arguing that even close to a substantial percent of people hunt for their own food?
Maybe, just MAYBE, they weren’t talking about all of you who actually have, and instead were making a point about how the vast majority of people in at least the US have not and will not hunt their own food in their lifetime. The number drops if we only consider those who actually provide for themselves with hunting rather than treat it as a sport with meat as a bonus.
No you are right, they must have literally meant that noone has ever hunted ever. That makes much more sense. Definitely doesnt say anything about your reading comprehension.
I get it, they are coming for your meat, probably your guns too. Life’s rough. Keep up the good fight.
🙋♂️
Down here it’s a pretty common hobby. I just got a new .308 last year for this explicit purpose.
Just here to remember everyone that insects are indeed part of the animal Kingdom.
I have been fishing before with friends and watched a meat animal get decapitated on a relatives farm out of curiosity
Also watched a mongoose get drowned as part of pest control on the same relatives farm because they eat chickens
Never felt bad about it and enjoyed learning about It
Oh and I’ve massacred countless amounts of mosquitos but I don’t eat them
🙋♂️
Parents owned a hog and chicken farm. Pro tip: never eat a rooster. Awful meat.
I also used to go fishing and hunting with my parents all the time. I love me a good catfish.
I have eaten rooster before, its more a gamey like taste or more intense compared to chicken
Maybe the one I had was just bad or something. I didn’t enjoy it.
🙋
Duck, rabbit, fish. It’s not uncommon for people to hunt and fish.
Fuck yeah brother, every invasive carp I can remove from my local river and stream ecosystem is a big WIN for everybody around me.
I cut their throats and leave them in the reeds for scavengers to feed on.
I do this with a big fuckin’ smile too, knowing my local DNR fines ignorant folks who release invasive species into my waterways.
Edit: am strictly catch-and-release when not reeling in invasive cunts. I don’t even used barbed hooks because I’m not a dick bag.
Such a strange combination of sport and killing. Which part do you like best?
🙋 I’ve hunted deer, gutted and skinned them myself too. The tenderloins are great sauteed, and the rest of the meat is good ground (just don’t cook it as long as hamburger, it’s more lean).
If you haven’t realized yet, vegans dont care about hunters.
Factory farms are hard to make an argument for though.
I’ll give it a shot anyways, to play devil’s advocate.
I only buy a vanishingly small percentage of the amount of meat produced by factory farms every year. So I feel the same percentage responsible for perpetuating that system, which isn’t nearly enough to keep me up at night.
Hey we can all just work to be better versions of ourselves, and theres a lot of ways to make progress. Considering I’m the only vegan in my family, I likely buy more meat than you do.
Its really just important to me that people dont allow themselves to stop growing mentally and morally. Its sad when people behave like they have all the answers to everything already.
I mean homesteading is pretty popular
The replies to this are chefs kiss
Everyone talks about the annoying vegan, but look at all of the rage-induced replies from the meat eaters.
I counted maybe a dozen strawmen? People really are resistant to any kind of change, even the thought of it.
I have. I note several responses from people in the thread who have.
Good call! :)
The self-reference in this was expected but somehow also the perfect cherry on top
not like us
Well three of them are psycho strawman and the last one is nature playing out lol
Did you really just call stuffing 10 pigs in a cell smaller than my toilet, leaving them unable to even turn around, feeding them with drugs and then killing them without ever having seen the sun ‘nature playing out’? Good one.
this is moving the goal post
I really don’t see how they are strawmen. The vast majority of people do not need meat, the reason they eat meat is because it tastes good. Taste is merely one of our senses, why is it ok to kill to enjoy the taste, but not ok to enjoy the sound or sight? That’s what the meme is getting at.
Nature playing out
Why is this an argument, when it isn’t an acceptable reason for anything else? Rape, murder, thievery are all things that most people see as wrong, despite them happening in nature plenty.
One of the things that makes humans unique is our ability to consider logic and mortality beyond what happens in nature, because nature certainly isn’t perfect.
Why is this an argument,
That’s not an argument. it’s a fact.
It might be a fact, but it’s being used as an argument to make a specific point. These things are not exclusive.
And my question stands, why is it being used as an argument when it has no relevance?
The vast majority of people do not need meat,
you don’t know what others need
I of course don’t know what any specific person needs, but knowing what the vast majority of people need is trivial, it’s basic science.
Please stop arguing is such bad faith in every response you make.
i’m stating facts, and you concede those facts, and then claim i’m arguing in bad faith. you don’t know what that means: your accusation of bad faith is, itself bad faith.
You are stating strawmen: facts with no relevance to the argument presented, which you then point to and refuse to address the actual argument.
I never claimed to know what any individual needs, but you have started it as a fact as if that is at all relevant. It’s not, because I never claimed it. I claimed that I know that the vast majority of people need, based on basic science and statistics. If you have fact which actually argued against that, then please go ahead. But unrelated facts posing as arguments are strawman arguments, and are bad faith.
I never claimed to know what any individual needs
we can all read what you said
For real, dead animals taste amazing when you grill them
Agreed
Real
Same for dead plants and mushrooms tho.
porque no los dos
?
You should try dog if you get the chance, Elwood dog farm has a low impact factory farm where you can buy Labrador cuts and some gamier breeds if they’re in stock.
For a split second that website looked convincing 🙂
Would try if it was real.You can try some in Switzerland. While you can’t sell the meat, slaughtering and eating it is legal. There is farms where you can “make a donation” and they’ll invite you to dinner.
I agree! There’s actually a few human races I consider acceptable to eat, what a breath of fresh air to find someone like minded!
a few races of human
Ew, are you like a racist or something ?
I suppose when you presuppose superiority over sentient life for no other reason than your own pleasure, it’s quite easy to become racist.
You’re dawn right “ew”!
i know u are saying that because u think that would be bad but there is literally nothing wrong with eating dogs, also cats are good too.
My concern with eating dogs and cats (which I have) is how they were fed. There isn’t a lot of health safety concern with those kinds of underground meat sources can sometimes feed dead livestock back to the populace and that can cause all numbers of prion and parasitic concerns.
Great, so we agree no animals are ethically off limits to kill and consume. How about… Some of the more simple minded human populace? Like, if through IQ testing we find the bottom 5% of humans, and (without eating brain and spine, avoiding prion diseases) feed them to the masses? They’re probably not terribly much smarter than dogs, and they could help curb food shortages. Or are humans off limits?
Thats a fine slippery slope argument u got there and like always its complete shit, people are people and animals are animals.
I’m not suggesting that animal eating leads to cannibalism, which WOULD be a slippery slope.
I’m suggesting that if meat eaters are okay with killing and eating animals, why not the human animal? I probe because the line drawn in the sand is unclear with meat eaters.
Also, humans are animals. This is primary school stuff here.
What separates eating animals from eating people for you?
The fact that you are eating your own species, which is cannibalism.
Right, but what’s inherently wrong with eating your own species? I mean, I know, I think any sentient life shouldn’t be killed for my pleasure. But with your logic that some species are okay to kill and eat, and others aren’t, I’m wanting to know why those others aren’t.
Ignoring “societal norms”, as they’ve been used to commit genocide, slavery, and all manner of atrocities - why is cannibalism logically, in your opinion, bad?
there are genuine health issues with cannibalism unlike dogs and cats, bet we taste good too given the right seasonings tho
Only if you eat the brain or spinal column, which I was careful to add. Otherwise the risks are as manageable as with cow meat, i.e., parasites and bacteria. Given that you’re okay with eating cats and dogs, and now simple-minded humans, what’s to stop me from killing and eating you? I mean, all anyone needs to assert is that they’re mentally superior to their food, what’s off the table for you?
I’m sure mass scale cannibalism might actually be as good for the environment as a plant based diet. Maybe you’re on to something. We’d be so morally consistent!
go ahead a good third of my country thinks i shouldn’t exist anyway and im sick of fighting it, im sure i taste good too
you keep trying to push people into corners about this when most ppl who eat meat do it simply because it tastes good, has good nutritional value, and is easily accessible. for my two cents in w serious manor, the meat industry is fucked up and should be regulated, since you didn’t take my initial comment as the shitpost it is
there are moral concerns but for most people (majority will never even know what lemmy is) simply don’t care and will never care, because meat tastes good
Pushing people into corners is what good debate is about. If people find their refutations are weak enough to have them back into a corner, then they should abandon that argument.
I grew up on a farm in the south of New Zealand. My brothers were dairy farmers, my front yard was cattle, I was a staunch anti-vegan who swore he’d never eat vegetarian as long as he lived.
I will never care because meat tastes good. Except now I do.
There is no level of regulation that permits - in good moral conscience - the subjugation and slaughter of animals for our pleasure.
Meat is only easily accessible because it is heavily subsidized by the government. A vegan diet is nearly always cheaper - consider that most developing nations eat vegan/vegetarian because of this.
There’s a short book I read that absolutely convinced me of veganism called “This is Vegan Propaganda and Other Lies The Meat Industry Tells You”. I’ve had 5 people read it, and ALL FIVE have gone vegan. It’s straight up insane how brutal a grip the meat industry has on people, through lobbying, ad campaigns, purposeful obfuscation of the industry. Bananas!
No, humans taste nasty all joking aside. Also prions. Don’t eat your own kind, there are reasons for this.
That’s why I said “avoiding the brain and spine, to avoid prion diseases”. You might have misread my comment.
do you trust the processing facilities for the underground dogmeat industry to even come close to choosing safety over profit in shaving that meat down as close to cartilage as possible?
Oh we’re talking about eating humans now, we’re well past dogs as it seems like a fair few people here would be okay with factory farming them.
Personally, my ethics are simple and easily define - if it displays sentience, I won’t eat it. It’s unethical to kill and eat something that feels pain. I’m more interested in your more nebulous ethics, where some species are okay to eat, some not
It sounds like you’re okay with eating dogs, which id argue is demonstrably disgusting, but in your opinion, is it okay to rear, kill and then eat humans?
TBH, I’d expect them to be a bit gamey, especially cats.
I will eat your babies!
then u will starve
Good man.
Knock it off with the trolling nonsense
It’s pretty obvious you’re a troll
We are well aware of the dog meat troll tactic from vеgаns
Hypothetical moral questions posed genuinely is not trolling. If you’re okay with eating cows and pigs, why is eating dogs considered trolling?
it’s bad faith
I have no intent to deceive. There’s a moral inconsistency amongst meat eaters. Pigs are okay, dogs are not. Why? “Oh, because we like dogs” Does that mean I can eat any sentient thing I dislike? “Well, no, dogs are intelligent!” Pigs are smarter than most breeds of dog, and have equal capabilities for emotion.
There is no logical argument against veganism in western society. Literally none. Meat eaters collectively breed and kill literally billions of animals per year, destroying the planet, because it’s yummy. Meat eaters have essentially caused swine flu, bird flu, ebola, corona virus, just for the taste of meat. Meat eaters are causing treatment resistant bacteria by abusing antibiotics on high intensity farming, all for meat. That’s crazy.
there is no logical argument for a lot of things, its just culture. and it is tasty and thats all that need be said.
There’s a lot of awful things in culture. It was culturally acceptable to slap a women on the bottom for a good job.
Your argument is “ah well”.
That’s not a reasonable defense for your objectively immoral actions. You are causing the suffering of sentient life for taste, that makes you immoral. Not to mention the horrible effect your diet has on the planet.
it’s clearly a gotcha. that’s bad faith.
No it’s not. It being a “gotcha” does not mean it’s wrong. In fact, it is still right, you’re just wrong and think the person you reply to is wrong because they disagree with you.
Listen brother, I eat meat but if you go into a vegan post and get into an argument about veganism, you’re not being trolled, you’re the troll.
It doesn’t help that the vegans are right. The meat industry is a nightmare, terrible for the environment, and pretty bad for our health.
It’s insane that most Americans eat meat every day.
If I could put 100% tax on meat tomorrow I would, but that’s political suicide, so it’ll never happen. It’d be easier to adjust than you think. There are plenty of delicious vegetarian options, and it’d be a lot easier to choose those if they were more common.
I eat meat because it’s culturally acceptable, delicious, ubiquitous, and I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference. But that doesn’t mean I think it’s right.
I don’t believe I can make a noticeable difference.
Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry. Over the course of a lifetime, the number of animals you can save adds up.
Also it’s a good habit to transfer thoughts and beliefs into actions.
Not eating meat won’t change the systemic problems but it will mean fewer animals will be subject to the industry.
more animals are breed and slaughtered every year than the year before. being vegan has never reduced that
What bizarre logic, what thorough lack of object permanence.
Just because meat eating outpaces veganism doesn’t mean vegans haven’t reduced the consumption of meat?
I don’t even think you know what you’re saying now. If the whole world went vegan today, there’d be no meat animal slaughter. YOU are the cause of this problem.
“Oh world hunger is getting worse, I better stop my charity donations!”
“Oh greenhouse gas emissions are on the rise, might as well go back to oil and gas!”
Like, you realise how foolish that argument is, right?
Yeah no shit, but the number would be even higher if fewer people were vegan.
I mean, people hardly ever eat carnivores. Even pigs, which are omnivores, are 90% of the time herbivores. I don’t even eat meat, but this argument never made sense to me. Yes, there are countries where people eat dogs, but that doesn’t mean dogs and cats are equivalent to cattle. You can make an argument for horses though.
The argument works for a Western audience that are okay with killing and eat some animals, but find it abhorrent to eat others. Most people don’t like the idea of dogs in pain, and if we did rear dogs like we do pigs, there would be huge public outcry.
And sure, you get Redditors and Lemmy-ites who go “Oh ho i’d eat dog!”, but they mean they’d try the meat once at a market, to maintain moral consistency. The truth is they’d be just as horrified if they saw dogs yelping in factory farmed cages, like we treat chickens.
But there’s no reason to treat some animals one way, some another. They all feel pain, they all feel misery, they all call for their children once they’ve been culled. It’s objectively immoral to eat meat when not for necessity.
How do you measure how much misery a cod feels?
Edit: sorry that was a bit snarky. I don’t think you’re completely off the mark but I would think an animal needs at least a nervous system to experience pain, so there are categories to consider and it may be morally virtuous to abstain from eating some animals but not necessarily immoral, and we should be careful to anthropomorphize other animal emotional states.
So fish have nociceptors, and a brain that connects to them, and they avoid painful stimuli. They have analgesic response systems in their brain to dull painful stimuli. Even the most cautious interpetation of misery would include pain, so I would not kill and eat it. Fish display sentience, therefore it is immoral to kill them for pleasure.
Maybe I’m off on this but suffering/misery would include pain + the emotional state of unhappiness or we would just use pain for both? Avoiding painful stimuli doesn’t tell me about their emotional state or cognitive awareness of the pain, just an awareness of the stimuli.
Plants process pain and can communicate with other plants.
By your logic it is immoral to mow your grass.
No serious study suggests plants feel pain. They do not have a brain or central nervous system. At most, they respond to stimuli.
Many more plants “die” for animal feeding than with a vegan diet.
If you’re worried about grass pain, you should focus more on the animals that DO have nociceptors, central nervous systems and brains, and the ability to feel fear that you subject them too, purely for taste preference.
Horse meat does taste pretty good
If prepped properly, still needs a milk soak.
Upvoting, because while I don’t eat meat myself, I like people who are consistent.
If you’re okay with eating a pig, don’t judge those you eat a dog.
I mean I could but I have a nearly limitless supply of rabbits in my yard. Their fur makes great gifts. My plants love the compost I get from everything else. As a bonus the blood compost deters rabbits from eating my cabbage.
Funny thing, I can’t seem to find any type of vegan certification that is concerned with the use of animal byproducts or waste in fertilizer. A few specifically say they do not check fertilizer.
Actually a lot of organic farms rely on blood and bone meal, manure and fish emulsion fertilizers. They’re inexpensive as they’re byproducts of other industries and are very good for plants.
When I worked in an organic greenhouse I often wondered about how vegans would feel about farmers using animal based fertilizers. We definitely told people what we used, as we sold those products, but no one ever said anything about it. I guess vegans can’t control that so maybe it’s a nonissue unless they grow their own food and use seaweed based fertilizer(more expensive) instead?If you’ve got the luxury, you can also let fields go fallow and rotate crops to avoid fertilizer. That obviously requires more land though
This thread is weird. It seems like you all never heard of compost.
Does that work long term on a commercial scale without egg shells/ bone meal? Afaik, there needs to be an additional source of calcium, but that could of course also supplement crop rotation/fallowing.
Though tbf, limestone is very soft and I could see supplementing with ground limestone.
Eggs shells don’t work unless they’re ground into a very fine powder.
I don’t know the answer to this question. You may be right. And yea, I can see limestone in the right doses working.
And we could always extract the nutrients from our waste. Close the cycle: what goes in, goes out. We’re already using biosolids in agriculture.
Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good. If everyone stopped eating animals, there’d be no surplus of blood and bone for fertilisers, and other plant based by-products would fill the space.
As for the rabbits, I actually have a small Australian shepherd that runs through my lawn chasing the wallabies that meander by, I’ve been meaning to trap it and humanely slaughter it, the blue coat would make a great gift! And if the owner comes by looking for Bella, I could trap him and humanely slaughter him too. He looks a bit simple, so it seems ethical to me? He’d make good compost, that’s for true.
I expected the dog to be actually blue, but it seems to just be a pattern. Would’v been cool though
That does sound intriguing. How does it taste?
Gamey unless reared correctly. Better to eat pet dogs as the meat generally tastes juicier. It can sometimes be unpleasant bolting them before slitting their throats after they’ve lived inside for so long, but knowing they lived a happy life free of predators, and didn’t die of old age (try to kill before they become yearlings) makes it feel right.
Apologies but this is just assumptions. Pet meat isn’t good quality. Your average commercial pet food uses hydrogenated oils for shelf longevity and that causes a very bitter flavor.
farm raised dog is usually fed on grain and suet or tallow, and avoids this problem.
Try Harder.
What? Try harder to what? Don’t defend yourself in court hahahaha. “Does the defense have any closing statements?” “Uh yes your honour. Ahem. leans into mic t-try harder”
I’m fine with gamey meat, lots of hunters in the family. Sounds interesting, I might try it sometime.
Elwood dog farm
Ok now I’m angry it was a joke. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find organic free range husky?!
Tried and true
Oh hey, a 1-day-old account posting 6 vegan posts in 1 hour to unrelated communities. I’ve seen this one before.
Yep, Social Media Manipulation 101
I’ve seen an increasing trend of vеgаns doing this especially on lemmy
Yep, those awful vegans pushing their agenda for their own gains. Make ME aware of MY CHOICE to pay for animal abuse and torture?! Blatant manipulation!
no one is paying for animal abuse or torture
Exactly! My ancestors didnt pay for slavery, they just wanted cotton. Everyone need cotton, right? I mean they wouldve harvested the cotton themselves, but it was way cheaper from neighboring farmers for whatever reason. That didnt concern them though, they had enough prpblems!
“slaves are the same as animals” famously an argument made by good people whos opinions we should listen too
Good point, but I never said they were the same, nor did I compare them. I just made an argument about passive involvement in unethical doings which some regard as normal.
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do
Please dont twist my words. I didnt compare anything. And if I did, I would have compared animal cruelty with slavery (both as unethical acts), not animals with slaves (the recipients of cruelty).
anyone can see what you said
Hey! I made this content and was made aware of Lemmy by a friend two days ago. I decided to join and wanted to enter with a bang by sharing some of my OC.
Welcome and thank you for posting oc.
💚
Hey, I’m vegan!
Hello!
Hell yeah
The MFs in hungary, finland and the uk pretending that blood is a freaking ingredient and cooking “food” from it.
Blood is an ingredient in many other countries. We have blood sausages (morcilla) in Spain, and they’re common in many other places too
What’s your problem with that? I’m not into it myself but I can’t see how it’s any different from eating meat in the first place
The first time we harvested one of our pigs we had a wake for him. We ate all kinds of delicious cuts and raised a toasted to him.
To Biggun. He was a nice pig and he is a tasty pig.
TO BIGGUN!
<om no nom>
I am a lot more convinced by the environmental arguments to veganism.
To each their own, motivations for veganism vary vastly. My dad was hardcore vegan for over 25 years and never ever did he care about animals or the environment. He was vegan out of (for a lack of a better term) health beliefs. Nowadays he eats mussels and raw cheese and egg yolks.
I mainly kill animals to enjoy the silence that comes after.
Damn mosquitoes sound annoying AF!
You’re going to steal my blood and annoy me while doing so?
the least you could do is stfu and be grateful but no you have to fucking play vuvuzela LITERALLY IN MY EAR
Also they’re so damn noisy. You’d think their parents could shut them up, but human babies just like to scream.
I don’t kill any animals, I leave that to others.
Putin-esque.
If most people in the world are Putin-esque, making the term meaningless, then sure.
No. What is Putin-esque is churlishly claiming that your cruelty and violence are actually the consequences of other people’s decisions and actions. It’s chilling and everyone sees right through it, but neither you nor Putin really care about that, because neither of you are engaging in good faith.
Username checks out.
Specialisation of labour is literally the basis of our entire civilisation. Everybody does it for almost everything. Comparing that to Putin is definitely some next level stupid.
That’s obviously not my point. “Next level stupid” indeed.
No, reading your follow up comment made me realise you misunderstood (maybe intentionally, but I think not) the inital point in the first place.
I understand it. And I understand that it is bullshit. It is an attempt to emotionally distance oneself from the consequences of one’s own choices. If one chooses for an animal to be killed, one is responsible for its death, and playing little semantic games cannot change that fundamental reality. But these games do prevent one from fully processing an idea that threatens them. It’s how you brainwash yourself. Groom yourself to be able to commit cruelty and violence, and not feel bad about it.
To even engage in such sophistry is to confess one’s guilt.
Ok buddy.
You can have the last bark. I won’t reply anymore. Go ahead, take it. Buddy.
I only kill animals so vegans can keep making memes. Fuck they’re tasty though.
Tasty and go in a large variety of meals
The vegans or the animals?
The memes
The animals of course. Vegans don’t have enough meat on them.
what does quantity have to do with flavor
quantity gained versus effort expended. When feeding a larger group of people, it’s far easier to get enough by taking apart a deer as opposed to 20 something squirrels
